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The Professor is a Dropout

Page history last edited by David Hodges 14 years, 1 month ago

 

 

The Professor

Is a Dropout 

by Beth Johnson

p. 683

 

Discussion Closed

Conversation Continues

on Overflow Page

 

Read "The Professor Is a Dropout" and think about how dramatically one test result changed Guadalupe Quintanilla's life. The one cause, her very poor test result, started a chain of consequences that ended with her tremendous success.

 

YOUR ASSIGNMENT:

  1. Speculate how Lupe Quintanilla's life would have been different if she had been IQ tested in Spanish instead of English. This form of Cause and Effect writing—speculative cause and effect—requires you to imagine the results of an event that never occurred. You'll use comparison and contrast also, to explain in what ways her life might have been different from, in what ways similar to, the life she in fact led.

  2. Use the "Add a Comment" field below to contribute to the conversation.

  3. Check the Chart below to see if you are finished.

  4. Continue to contribute until you score a 5 out of 5.

  5. I have created an Overflow page where you can continue the conversation after you score 5.

 

THESE ARE YOUR SCORES SO FAR. PLENTY OF TIME TO IMPROVE!

Student Name
Score out of 5 Instructions
venkatesh Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Serdar Final Grade 3 Discussion Closed
Mary Ebogu Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Rokya Alao-Fary Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Elisabeth Bio Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Tabinda Kashif Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Florence Oledimma Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Trang Nguyen Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Julian Molokwu Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Tan Hoang Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Fatimazahra Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Salena Akhter Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Maria Aznar Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Nidhi Barot Final Grade 3 Discussion Closed
Mohamed Fofana Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Irena Jusko Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Rajbir Kaur Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Keu Hwa Kim Final Grade 0 Discussion Closed
Elvia Mateo Final Grade 0 Discussion Closed
Ngoc-Dung Nguyen Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Neel Patel Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish
Trupti Patel Final Grade 3 Discussion Closed
Kamrun Aleya Final Grade 5 Proceed to Overflow page if you wish

 

5 POINTS for excellent contributions or leadership

4 POINTS for competent contributions or analysis

3 POINTS for average work but good participation

2 POINTS for below average work or poor participation

1 POINT for incomprehensible or unresponsive contributions

0 POINTS for no participation.

Comments (78)

David Hodges said

at 9:21 am on Jan 27, 2010

This week, you'll be reading Chapter 12, Cause and Effect, for Monday, February 01. We'll start class Monday with a brief quiz on Chapter 12. In the meantime, you'll benefit from talking about issues of cause and effect here with your classmates regarding a particular essay from our textbook.

Read "The Professor Is a Dropout" and think about how dramatically one test result changed Guadalupe Quintanilla's life. The one cause, her very poor test result, started a chain of consequences that ended with her tremendous success.

Speculate how Lupe Quintanilla's life would have been different if she had been IQ tested in Spanish instead of English. This form of Cause and Effect writing—speculative cause and effect—requires you to imagine the results of an event that never occurred. You'll use comparison and contrast also, to explain in what ways her life might have been different from, in what ways similar to, the life she in fact led.

So, in this one homework assignment, you can stretch your muscles in several rhetorical modes including Cause/Effect, Compare/Contrast, Persuasive Speculation (a type of Proposal), and perhaps others. (You might want to post about exactly which "others.")

Good luck. Have fun. Start early. Visit often!

venkatesh said

at 11:38 am on Jan 27, 2010

its a great essay , the best to start with for writing V, its help the new immigrants and those who moved to USA recently, also it gives the motivation to us, help us to learn with interest.

SERDAR said

at 11:45 am on Jan 27, 2010

HI everyone Ii want to say i really like this article
i did not know IQ test was this important. I have never took it.Did any want take it.
I wanted share with you I beileve there is still this kind of problems in the world even in new jersey. when i first came to new jersey I tried to get a driver licence but I could not because there isn't turkish test I had a driver licence from Turkey but they made me take the test in english three times but I couldn't pass. When I went to take fourth time there was some one else and she told me I did not have to take the test. It caused a problems. I lost semester of the school,i didn't have money because i couldn't go to work.that is all i wanted to share thank you

David Hodges said

at 12:22 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Thank you for that, Serdar. I know what you say is true. I've tutored many adult Americans who could not read or write. For such adults, the need to pass the driving test is a very strong motivator.

I welcome your comments here very much. However, I don't want this page to become a place for sharing ideas on general topics. Instead, I offer you the brand new page I've called "Student-to-Student." I think you'll enjoy having a place to talk about ANYTHING there.

venkatesh said

at 12:59 pm on Jan 27, 2010

My opinion on this Essay - " Don' Get Disappointed and Hopeless, when you face troubles and hard time in life & Learning. Rather , try to find out your weakness and abilities - that will help you to improve yourself in those areas and will promote your Life", there is a solution for every problems and troubles- if you can figure it out, then you are the winner. No body in this world is born with English language skills and talent , it will come-once you start to learn. people who born here in USA- had a chance to learn English,when they are young kids, But for us, we were given a chance to learn it-when we are adults - It doesn't matter whether - you are young kid or Adults, its only matter - your keen interest and Intention to Learn the Language-ENGLISH."

venkatesh said

at 1:01 pm on Jan 27, 2010

"AGE,RACE,CULTURAL BACKGROUND,ETHNICITY, ETC... - IS NOT A OBSTACLE TO LEARN ENGLISH"

fatimazahra said

at 2:44 pm on Jan 27, 2010

hi Venkatesh,I'm really agree with you. the essay it's very strong example for how the froeign people struggle at first time in country, you don't know nothing ,we know just we are in strongest country in the world and we achieve the american dream it's easy to say it, but it's very hard to live it without langauage and money.and every thing looks impossible ,I like the essay, because its expleain how many struggle she got but she didn't give up ,she tried eveything to go to school and how she was good mother,meanwhile she tried all her best to go the school and learn english ,really nothing we can take it as reasons to give up. we should to be optimist ,every problem or struggle we should take it as test sometimes we pass other times we falid , no matter what we should be happy because we have appourtinty to go the college and get degree without any problems they don't care about your AGE,RELIGIONS,LANGAUGE ...We should be proud of our self no matter what.

Mary Ebogu said

at 4:51 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Well, while i was reading this article, all i kept on saying was Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!. To me this article is a challenge to most of us who spoke english as our second language, considering the fact that we are in a country where english is a neccesity. I bet that most of us will be thrilled on how she survived the discrimination and embarrasment.
You know what guys..........., I think, it was determination that made her attain to the uttermost height. So, no matter what we face in this life, we should always be determined so that we can achieve our dreams. And we can be the architect of our destiny, according to the article, Lupe says" I realised that i was the architect of my own destiny".

Maria Aznar said

at 5:15 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Hello everyone. I just finish to read the essay, and I think it is a really good example of why people have to fight for everything we want to accomplish. Wisdom only takes place in people who really believe in themselves. It was 1 year ago when I decided to come here, and I did not know anything about the language. Now, I'm really proud because of my improving, and I'm still afraid when I need to comunicate with someone else, but this unconfortable situation remaind me every day that nothing is easy, and there is only one thing that you should always trust in: yourself.

julian molokwu said

at 6:47 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Hello my fellow students, when i finish reading this article i was so motivated.Do you know what i like most in this article? Lupe was combining a motherhood with three children and her education, she determined to achieve her goal despite all the humiliation and discrimination, she pick courage to become what she is today. i believe this article will make a great impact especially to foreiners that has kids at home, it doesn't matter when you start, what matters is what you achieve at the end.

Mary Ebogu said

at 7:52 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Hi Julian, u are definately right. This article is really challenging, it's really an insight of what is takes to be determined. I wish we will all learn from this wonderful article

rokya alao-fary said

at 8:03 pm on Jan 27, 2010

well, what i can say is that our background,culture or language are our identity and should be conserved no matter what. No one has the right to judge you because you can't speak his language but should be amazed and impressed that
instead of your own language you are trying to learn another language. all of us came from different places and we don't have the same way to do things.
we should learn how to respect each one background, culture or opinion. Because in my opinion no culture is better than other one.

Tabinda Kashif. said

at 8:41 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Hello everyone. This article is very inspiring.

I think her life would have been significantly different if she would have been given the IQ test in spanish or put into

bilingual classroom due to the fact that she didnot speak english at all. And for the school to label her "seriously

retarded" was a major mistake which caused her to lose interest in learning in English language. According to this article

her school/teacher didnot make any effort into investigating if she was able to read, write, understand, follow directions in

her mother language( spanish) instead she was given a job as teacher assistant and no efforts were made to educate her

even at 1st grade level.

rokya alao-fary said

at 8:44 pm on Jan 27, 2010

This is the second time im reading this article and it reminds me so much of my mother. This article is so strong and teach us so much about :
first, how to be strong and step up for the one we love, secondly it teachs us that our background is very important(while speaking english to her children, she continued to speak in her own native language to their children
so that they wouldn't forget where they came from) i did love that. And third, be able to achieve your goals no matter what because we create our own destiny.
the greatest lesson i learned from that article is that if you want you can, you just have to be strong and determined.Go out there and do what you have to do to become who you want to become...

rokya alao-fary said

at 8:59 pm on Jan 27, 2010

i do agree with you Tabinda but she was about to take her courses in english i think that she wouldn't have been able to take the IQ test in spanish
the best thing they should have done was to help her improve her english by putting her in an ESL class as we are all doing right now
and then make her take the IQ test when her english would be okay.

venkatesh said

at 9:54 pm on Jan 27, 2010

If she had taken the IQ Test in Spanish instead of english, it would be great way for her , to expose her intelligence and Thoughts, also meant to be a great way of assessing her knowledge. It would have made her to think in a positive way and let her express her thoughts and feelings to the maximum.
She must have got into a perfect niche, where she can fit in comfortably and utilize all the available resources available to her in a Effective way. One of the Best Way to Learn a New Language ,is by means of translation & and using the native tongue to learn the new language. This will help to improve her skills , both in language and communication , also helps her to get into the mainstream with other americans quickly.
The test in Spanish would made it possible to express her intelligence and ability , in her early days of childhood.
After assessing her skills by the IQ test in spanish , you can test her ability in english and with those results , place her in a Perfect Location (like Our ESL), which would help to improve her English Level . Also, she could have joined a Bilingual School -which would help her to Learn English with the help of Spanish.

Tabinda Kashif. said

at 10:18 pm on Jan 27, 2010

Rokya, the time period that you are talking about is when she was twenty some years old, mother of three children. And

the time period i'm talking about is when she was 12y/o and had recently moved to Texas and was give IQ test in a

language which she didnot understand or was able to read.

And in response to your comment that she should have not been able to take IQ test in spanish, well IQ test is a

knowledge test and according to the article she was reading in spanish to her grandfather from different sources like

books, newspapers and magazines; also , her grandfather taught her math so she should have done fine on the test if

give in spanish. But the big question is why was she given an IQ on the first place, and why wasn't a psychiatrist

consulted to findout more about her learning disability, Instead she was labled as "retarded" by the school.


Her school is at fault for rushing in to labeling her as retarded and not putting her in ESL classes and neglecting her

specific need which was simply a language barrier.

Other important thing is that she was not offered help to learn english and she had to struggle to find the right place to

learn english.

David Hodges said

at 10:31 pm on Jan 27, 2010

This is very impressive, 5! You are a very bright group of students. Now that you've had a chance to share your early impressions, I need you to scroll back to the top of these comments and read mine.

THE ASSIGNMENT AND TOPIC QUESTION ARE IN MY FIRST COMMENT.

Thank you, and keep up the very good work! :)

rokya alao-fary said

at 10:51 pm on Jan 27, 2010

tabinka we are almost talking about the same thing im not saying that you are not right im also blaming the school but what im saying is that she couldnt take the IQ test in spanish because the class she was about to take was in english
ok let us take a simple example when you came to america and was about to start your courses at camden county college the test you took was not in your language but in english right? may be they should have let her taken the mathematic
test and established her IQ according to that but even in mathematic, you have to know the language to pass the test because you can be confused about what they ask you to do. When i first took my mathematic test at camden county college
they put me at the lower level and i was suprised but i started the class i did always get 100 at every class exams i took because at that time my english improved and i was able to undestand better what was asking of me. Just to say that if you are about to take a course in french for example there is no way the IQ test will be in english may be i don't know much about that issue but i think that what im saying did make sense and i do undestand your point and also both of us did agree on one point that the school was at fault.

Tan Hoang said

at 10:51 pm on Jan 27, 2010

hi. i readed the essay this afternoon when i was waiting in the car for my next class. in my oppion, Lupe is the greatest person in all aspects. she is a good wife and good mother. first of all, she cleaned, cook, even do everything which can make her husband life become easily.  However, since she realized her children are " yellow birds" in school, immediately, she blamed on herseft. Then, she tried to figure out what made her kids become that bad. Fortunenately, she listened to one of these teachers and try to get over it.      For me, Lupe's situation is one of the great stories or examples of many succesful foreign students or people who learn english as a second language.  
Therefore, do not give up with whatever you are doing now or you are going to do. 

julian molokwu said

at 10:53 pm on Jan 27, 2010

you know what? it doesn't matter whether she took the iq test in english or spanish, the most important thing is that she successfully achieved her goal at the end of the day.

rokya alao-fary said

at 10:55 pm on Jan 27, 2010

I do agree with you Julian it does not matter where we all started from the result of our action should be what really matter...

Elisabeth BIO said

at 1:31 am on Jan 28, 2010

Tabinda i agree with what you said. After reading this article, I keep asking myself "how could they give her an IQ test in the language she never learnt before and expected from her a good result?" worst, they classified her as seriously retarded only based on that IQ test result. That was really unfair. If only she had been IQ tested in Spanish instead of English, her IQ result would had been higher and she wouldn't quit school at that age. also, she wouldnt had been married at the age of 16 and be mother of 3 children at 21 and finally wouldn't become such a great figure in America. it is clear that everything she faced, humiliations, challenges help her to become what she is today.

Tabinda Kashif. said

at 9:26 am on Jan 28, 2010

Elizabeth, you are right. How could they give her IQ test in that language. Even my question is why did give her IQ test?

School knew that her mother language is Spanish not English. So they should automatically put her into ESL classes but in

instead of doing this they insulted her a lot by saying her "mentally retarded" which was really unfair. Also, proffessor

question is How Lupe's life would have been different if she had been tested in Spanish instead of English?

Tabinda Kashif. said

at 9:57 am on Jan 28, 2010

I think her life would be totally different if she had been tested in Spanish intead of English because after reading this whole article it is

very clear that she was and is very intelligent and hardworking; moreover, she is a person who knew how to face obstacle. If she

would have been tested in spanish her life would be totally different. First of all, she would not of gone through humilation, feeling so

hurt, anger and dissappointment. Since she performed better in Spanish language , test in spanish language could have improved her

self confidence, self esteem which was very important for her to achieve her goals. Another important thing is she would not have been

married at the age of sixteen (all of us know age 16 not a good age to marry, it is a time to enjoy the life) and mother of 3 children.

Fati said

at 10:42 am on Jan 28, 2010

HI there, need some help. this is Fatoumata (Fati) from writing3 and I've been receiving emails from writing5 in my mail box but I am able to navigate in both writing 5 and writing3. I tried to sign out from writing 5 and sign in to writing3 once mo but It says this account already exist. Don't know what is going on.

P.J: Based on you guys comments the article you are talking about sounds great, I guess this is just one case you guys heard about. There have been many peolple whom lifes have been a hell just because of behaviors like this one. I will be more than happy to read the article and I would like Elizabet to lend me her copy of the article if she has one. Just for reading. Thanks

rokya alao-fary said

at 11:19 am on Jan 28, 2010

hi , i agreed with you Tabinda i think too that it would not be that much different if the IQ test had been taken in spanish instead of english as a strong woman she would have achieved her goals anyway but may be not that much
because her detrmination came first from the fact that her children had been humiliated. May be she wouldn't had to suffer that much to achieve her gals. Everything would have been much easier and she wouldn't be that different from all of us today.

Elisabeth BIO said

at 3:25 pm on Jan 28, 2010

hi fati you are lucky to be able to sign up in both writing 3 and 5.hope you are not going to be confused. just talk to our writing teacher if you wanna sign out from writing 5. I thing we have the same teacher, Professor David Hodges.
the article we are talking about here is in our wrinting 5 book. the article is very interesting, if you want to read it, I could lend it to you later.

Elisabeth BIO said

at 5:16 pm on Jan 28, 2010

hi Rokya, I thing in the contrary that her life would completely be different if the IQ test had been in Spanish. like I said before, first, she wouldn't had dropped from school. second, she wouldn't had been married at 16 and became mother of 3 children at 21. finally, she wouln't had become as famous as she is today. she could had been studied good in school and never have to quit and get married earlier.So she would have live an easier and average life without too much humiliation, frustraction. And like you said, her determination came first from the fact that her children had been humiliated, I will add that she wouldnt do what she did without those children and all the challenges she faced in the process. Only those children made her realized that her IQ test result was not fair and then she decided to become more than an average. so, if the IQ test had been in Spanish her life would had been easier and she will be living today an average life and maybe we wouldnt be here today talking about her....

trangnguyen said

at 7:36 pm on Jan 28, 2010

Hi Elisabeth, i have just finished my reading about this story. It is an interesting story for us. I don't agree in your contrary cause of if you are Lupe , you will do the same method as her. She never think that her life will be treat like that. In her story, i can see that she doen't want to give up anything . She tried her best but it isnot untill she got in trouble with her answer at school.

David Hodges said

at 8:02 pm on Jan 28, 2010

Hey, 5! Wonderful work so far, students. In particular, I want to thank Rokya, Tabinda and Elisabeth for following the important question I asked in the very first comment.

How would Lupe's life have been different if she had been given the IQ test in Spanish? You who have already answered this question can move on to other topics, but you who have not need to add something to the discussion.

David Hodges said

at 8:04 pm on Jan 28, 2010

Special note to Fatoumata (Fati): I have deleted your permissions for this Writing 5 wiki, Fati. You may still visit and read the pages (anybody can!), but you won't be able to accidentally log in here or comment. This should solve your double-identity problem. See you at the Writing 3 wiki!

rokya alao-fary said

at 8:12 pm on Jan 28, 2010

hi Elisabeth i got your point but the test didn't tell us that it was because her adolescence life's was so troubled she had to get married earlier. She could have passed the IQ test in spanish and get married earlier too no one knows.
We can see for example that in America many young girls get pregnant earlier and get married too not because their life were troubled but may be because they wanted it that way or because it was a mistake and they had to assume it.
that is why i said that her life wouldn't have been so different...thank you.

Tabinda Kashif. said

at 8:14 pm on Jan 28, 2010

Rokeya, we are not talking about the same thing. First, we are talking about labeling someone with "Redtardation". Second, we are talking about if someone is capable of "learning" doesnot matter what understand . In other words IQ test determines if you have the ability to learn. So dont worry about the language for a second,since retarded person regardless of language cannot learn things depending on the retardation level. So in Lupe's case she knew how to read, do math and the test in her language would have ruled out any learning disability which would have open the doors for her to learn in English even if she didnt understand it initally. Most important thing to remember is her teacher was not teaching her anything and she was just using her as an assistant.

rokya alao-fary said

at 8:15 pm on Jan 28, 2010

thank YOU Davidbecause it was a really interresting test.

rokya alao-fary said

at 8:52 pm on Jan 28, 2010

Tabinda ,i got u i was just trying to explain what i was talking about that is it. i got your point and you are right i am not arguing about it.
just try to undestand my point too the school made a big mistake instead of what they did they could have simply if they didn't want her to take
the IQ test in spanish, allowed her to learn at least english and then made her take the IQ test.

Elisabeth BIO said

at 9:03 pm on Jan 28, 2010

hi Rokya I undestand what you said through your Example but in Lupe's case, it is only because of the IQ result she quit school when she was 12 years old and get married young. her marriage or her pregnancy did not happen by mistake or accident.

Elisabeth BIO said

at 9:30 pm on Jan 28, 2010

hello trangnguyen,(dont know your name). in lupe's case, she gave up after the IQ result because her self- esteem was low. at that time she didnt know that she and only herself was a master of her own destiny. if she had knew that before she wouldn't had gave up in the first place despite her poor IQ result. After the "long journey of her life", meaning all these challenges, as she said, she understand that she is the architect of her own destiny. So nobody could stop her from succeeding that why she had been determined and fight strongly for her dream and for her children ...

Florence oledimma said

at 7:32 am on Jan 29, 2010

Florence oledimma said I deeply believe that we are the architect of our own destiny through our determination to achieve success. This woman tried her best even when she was labeled retarded . she was motivated by the desire to set example for her children. she not only created a distinguished destiny for herself but she also created it for her children. Today, many parents don't set a good example for their children. Children keeps growing without modeling appropriate behavior from anybody. if all parents will be like lupe, it means that all children will be responsible. Giving a very poor test result can make one's life miserable. The person might even want to quit everything concerning education,but in lupe's case,she was not the type known for quiting. Fellow students, don't quit easily we have to encourage ourselves and put more effort so that we will achieve our goal. The test was conducted in English. Had it been that the test was conducted in spanish instead of English, the result would have been different perhaps she wouldn't have bothered herself to reach this distinguish destiny in life. Folks, we can be whatever we want to be through our own effort,moreover,persistent effort leads to success. Keep on planting the seeds because there will be a day of harvest.

David Hodges said

at 11:42 am on Jan 29, 2010

In an earlier comment, I praised several students for beginning the speculation about Lupe's IQ test and how her life would have changed if she'd been tested in Spanish.

I should also have praised Venkatesh, who got to the topic even sooner. Congratulations, Venkatesh. You have earned your 5. You may proceed to the Overflow page if you like.

Mary Ebogu said

at 2:19 pm on Jan 29, 2010

Well, u guys are right, she would have been a better student if she was given an IQ test in spanish. But come to think of it, what would it have been like if she had taken the IQ test in

spanish.

To my own point of view, the label of her being retarded wasn't her fault, bcos she couldn't couldn't understand english. To me everything happens for a purpose, i think if she had

taken the IQ test in spanish, she might find it difficiult to understand english. She is just like a student who wanted to enroll in a college, where english language is a necessity, and is to

the take an english placement test. How would they know what level of english langauge she is if she takes a spanish placement test in an english school. I think the problen was from

the school or teachers who named her retarded. what i would have expected them to do was to teach her the elementary basics of english when they found out that she wan't good at

english. Anyway, in all the troubles, sorrows, humilations and pains she passed through, she came out of the crowd being a winner.

fatimazahra said

at 2:27 pm on Jan 29, 2010

hello everybody,Ithink classfied lupe as retarted just because she got sixty -four in her score in the IQ test which it was in english=,this resault change her life ,she was embrassed , she can't inderstand any word in english .this event change her life .I think she was strong women at young age ,she was 16 when she got married and take care of three children and how she struggle when her children had the same problem the English that was also big challenge for all quintanilla familly ,I think lupe did all her best to be good english speaker,she faith for her kids too ,she was good examplefor her familly to push them study more and more ,and she prove her succsed by speaking english easily .

fatimazahra said

at 2:33 pm on Jan 29, 2010

For me she was good example to be good student and good mother in the same time ,I'm so keen to do the same thing beacuse everything has the price maybe high or low .

David Hodges said

at 2:35 pm on Jan 29, 2010

MARY EBOGU
Good work, Mary. You have earned your 5. Proceed to the Overflow page if you have more to contribute.

FATIMAZAHRA
Your comment is an improvement too, Fatimazahra, but doesn't succeed yet. What you say about Lupe is correct. The result of her English IQ test did embarrass her, although she did not let that defeat her. But I want you to speculate what would have happened if she had been IQ tested in Spanish instead. OK?

fatimazahra said

at 2:57 pm on Jan 29, 2010

Hello Mr.hodges ,thank you for your comment, i think if she took the IQ test in spanich maybe her life would be different ,furthermore she would had nothing to challenge everything would be easy for her maybe she can't speak english easily and beacme what she is now ,I know it was unfair for her to classfied her as retarted and her kids as well,Ithink taking IQ test in english was bad result for her emotionally but it was good reasons to achieve her goal by create succsed career.

Maria Aznar said

at 5:01 pm on Jan 29, 2010

In my opinion, Lupe had a difficult life since she tested IQ as retarded, but fortunately it made her harder in the future. However, I don't think that her effort to fight with everything is caused for her terrible experiences. Probably, if she had had tested in Spanish, her life had been succesful as well. The people who is persistent and believe in themselves, always achieve their purposes. Lupe is a strong woman even before she was tested, so the person who she has into herself is the responsable of all her merits either she was tested in English or in Spanish. In summary, I think she had had a succesful life anyway.

David Hodges said

at 5:23 pm on Jan 29, 2010

Good work, Fatimazahra and Maria!
You have both earned your 5s and may proceed to the Overflow page if you wish.

Mohamed Tidiane Fofana said

at 8:09 pm on Jan 29, 2010

Hello Mr hodges. What I think about Lupe is that the IQ test given to her in English made he become what she is today. If she was tested in spanish that is her mother langage, she wouldn't have had to challenge any difficulty in her life. Generally, no one likes to be humiliated by the way he or she thinks or do something, but if it happens, people try to overcome it by doing well as they can in order to keep they head high. Being treated as a retarded, likewise her children , gave to Lupe a thirst of learning english and even doing more. The result of that is what she is today, a doctor in Education.

julian molokwu said

at 9:52 pm on Jan 29, 2010

well, lupe would have do so much better in spanish more than english in the IQ test, but can she be able to associate with other people that are not spanish? in my own opinion, i strongly believe that test in english made her what she is today.think about the children named ''yellow bird'' in the school because their parents are not playing their role at home by helping in their studies. what would have been the future of those kids? these are the challenges that make her to stand on her feet and achieve her goal and become what she is today.

kamrunaleya said

at 12:14 am on Jan 30, 2010

Hi..Julian i m agree with your opinion.I think that Lupe Quintilla's life would have been different if she had been IQ tested in Spanish instead of English in many ways.Such as if she would have been tested in Spanish instead of English she might be

able to build up a wonderful career in Spanish but at the same time she will limited her life with in the boundary of Spanish language.She will become unable to communicate with those people who speak different language and she will become unable

to compete with today's world where English is the international language for all over the world.May be she will remain as a simple person as we are.The IQ test in English instead of Spanish create a way for her to achieve her goal and to prove

herself rather than make her unhappy.

Mohamed Tidiane Fofana said

at 12:19 am on Jan 30, 2010

If Lupe was IQ tested in spanish instead of english, she would probably be placed in a higher grade. She would not be treated as a retarded because she did know how to read or express herself in spanish. Dr Quintanilla has struggled learning as a senior student because of the language matter. I don't think that the IQ test held in English was the real cause of Lupe's determination. I think the basic reason of her persistance and motivation was when she thought about her children. She didn't want them to be looked down in the society, she want them to be high and respected personality. So far,

David Hodges said

at 6:35 am on Jan 30, 2010

Beautiful work Kamrun, Julian, and Mohamed! You have earned your 5s. You may stay here to chat with one another or proceed to the Overflow page if you like.

trangnguyen said

at 2:03 pm on Jan 30, 2010

When i read this story , the first thing made me feel upset that the test IQ that is unfair for every one who is the first time learning by English. If you come from a different country as Lupe, and you have to get this test , you will have the same result , not surprising. She is very good at spanish that is not mean she is retared by English. The result of this test that made her life was changed, even she felt humiliated in front of her classmate and didn't feel confortable in classroom. I thought the main reason is she didnt have chance to learn and improve by english cause of her grandma and grandfarther. Going throught this story, I am very proud of her during the time she motivated herself by learning english and helped her children out of the problem as her past life. Finally, she is doing this job as the US Attorney General and her children did well in study . I think she won't be introuble if she take the test IQ in spanish instead of English.

julian molokwu said

at 5:14 pm on Jan 30, 2010

Dear professor Hodges, there is no mark for me yet.

David Hodges said

at 5:16 pm on Jan 30, 2010

What you say about Lupe's life is correct, Trang. She did extremely well for herself despite failing the IQ test in English. Now, you will perhaps think I'm being very demanding, but you haven't quite answered my question. Your last sentence gives a hint of how you will answer: "she won't be in trouble" if she takes the test in Spanish. Is that all you want to say? Will she excel in her studies if she tests well? Or will she take her education for granted? Does the determination she displays in her life result from her early humiliation? These are the questions I want you to speculate about.

trangnguyen said

at 8:13 pm on Jan 30, 2010

Dear professor Hodge, your right. I mean she won't be feel humiliated from her classmate in first grade like that if they don't think she is retarted from the scored IQ. I am not sure abour how excel she will be by spanish but i believe that she can do it well. In the story, she told about her life after she stayed at home " From that time on, she was serving as her blind grand father, and she is a fluent reader ." And she did it really well when she was a young age. The determination she displays in her life doesn;t result from her early humiliation because of her children when she know they put in the " yellow bird" . So the trouble i mean that she feft disappointment herself as the first grade when she reconiged that she doesn't have any talent by learning English.

ND Nguyen said

at 8:35 pm on Jan 30, 2010

To other people, the English IQ test was likely her life's tragedy because it made her almost stayed away of education. It brought her to a circumstance in which she was "so much older and so much dumber"; or at least she was shouted at without noticing what wrong she just had done. The English IQ test also indirectly pushed her to be a young cleaner machine as well as put her kids in the "Yellow Birds" group. To me, however, taking a panoramic look at through her story, this test might be a miraculous destiny. This terrible experience bequeathed her a thirst of knowledge. It made her to be a hunger of studying. If she had taken a Spanish IQ instead of the English one, would she have desired to study like this ? I guess no, she wouldn't. Might be she would just have studied as other common students. She would have graduated, worked and lived a normally easy life. On a contrary, the three-children mommy has created for her own a phenomenon. The English IQ test was like a first stage of a long steep staircase. It was not only not block her way but also lifted her up to a higher step. Even though it was not the most important factor led her to amazing achievements, it was not completely a nightmare. Some times obstacles and tragedies do not destroy dreams, but they just create heroes.

ND Nguyen said

at 8:59 pm on Jan 30, 2010

I do not prefer the way of thinking that if she took the Spanish test, her life would have been much more easier. I am partial to stick with the thought that she would not have succeed like this if she did not face with this obstacle. It could not whip her down;in contrast, it woke a phenomenon up.

David Hodges said

at 11:18 pm on Jan 30, 2010

Trang, I appreciate your extra effort to make your ideas clear. You and I will talk more about how to communicate using speculation, but for now I am happy to award you your 5.

ND, you have earned your 5 also, partly on the strength of your ideas, partly because of your charming images. I see you will not be satisfied to state things simply. I will count on you to introduce your classmates to metaphor and colorful speech this semester. :)

Sr.Irena Jusko said

at 8:34 pm on Jan 31, 2010

Hi! If Guadalope had been IQ tested in Spanish instead of English, she would have been classified as a clever student. Then, Lupe would study English in school and at the same time she would continue to flourish in Spanish at home. This means that her way to mastering English skills would be much shorter and easier. Also, she would have avoided some bad experiences,such as being humiliated by being viewed as "retarded". I am sure , Lupe finally would have ache ived academic success due to her passion for literature. Even the author says "Lupe's own love of reading flourished". It doesn't matter that she read in Spanish instead of English, her intellect continued to develop. While she is a passionate reader, she is also a very ambitious person. According to Beth Johnson, "she soon realized that the associate's degree by Texas Southmost College would not satisfy her." I believe that her ambition and talents would drive her to a high position in society. To summarize, regardless of being tested in Spanish or in English, she would have acheived success. However, by being tested in English, she encountered many obstacles which strengthened her character. Having persevered inspite of her dificulties, she has acquired an additional reward of the virtue of steadfastness.

rajbir13 said

at 8:54 pm on Jan 31, 2010

Hello Prof. Hodges, according to me if IQ test would have been taken in spanish her life would have been different. She would not been labeled as a retarded. She would not have faced the humiliation.She would have scored very well in the IQ test.Lupe was a hard working and a determined woman so she would have achieved her goal either way.

salena said

at 9:13 pm on Jan 31, 2010

I read three times Dr.Lupe`s article and now i think if her IQ test had not taken in English, she would not have been success in
her life. I am thinking this way because we are studing about 14 or 16 years,some of us has been finished and has started
again.few of us did good and rest of the students are just studing because they have to.As a consequence, same thing had
happened in her life.

When Guadalupe had retarded, she was not worried.She was doing everything normal way in her life. For example she took care
of her grandfather, she got married and she had given three kids within five years. She was happy but her contenment has
changed when her children had been put into a group called "yellow birds". It was agroup for slow learner.She thought same
thing also going to be happen with her children.Onthe contrary, she tried to develop herself. Inspite of her enough age she tried
to start from school. I have been fascinate to her brave.

David Hodges said

at 9:23 pm on Jan 31, 2010

That was quite remarkable, Irena! You may proceed to the Overflow page with the rest of the 5s. Rajbir, what you say is also entirely true. I would like you to answer one additional question before you move on, though. Suppose Lupe had not had children. The school would never have tested them and classified them as yellow birds. What then? Would Lupe have accepted the "retarded" label and submitted to a diminished life?

David Hodges said

at 9:27 pm on Jan 31, 2010

Salena, while I was asking my question of Rajbir, you seem to have been trying to answer it. Say as clearly as you can, Salena and Rajbir, if her children had tested well in school, or if she had not had children at all, would Lupe ever have challenged her own test score or achieved all that she did?

salena said

at 10:40 pm on Jan 31, 2010

Thank you Mr.David for your question.I do not think so because lupe achieved all those things in her life after putting her children into the group 'yellow birds".In addition, she has taken the challenge when she saw same thing going to be happen with her children.Other wise she was quite happy with her family.

Neel Patel said

at 10:56 pm on Jan 31, 2010

Professor Hodeges, When you said that name of the story in the class, Professor is a dropout, I thought this story would be about a student who is about to receive his PHD degree and for some reason he drops out of college...But after reading the first half page, i realized this story will not only give me a chance to write my idea on the wiki, but it helped me prove this quote in my life "Anything in this world is possible only if you are willing to make that task your only vision and defeat any obstacles in you way". When i read a sentence which was about her getting called retarded in first grade, it gave me a interest of how she was going to build her life...As she moved on from high school in her life, she really didn't have a specific reason to learn english but at the age of 16, when she got married and with in five year,when she gave birth to three children, she made her vision to learn english. So she can help her children develop and she can get somehwere in her life..it was not as easy as it sounds for her. She went to many places to learn english but because other people thought she wouldn't get anywhere, she was loosing her hope. But not everyone is same on this earth, the registrar from college gave her a hope and permission to start four year college...She worked her way up. Basically she was never retarded. Through out her entier life, she was ready to run on the track, someone just had to give her a direction..she did reach the biggest success of her life and the formula Lupe followed thoughtout her life was preety simple "Hard work=Success"

Personally what i learned:
If you think a person is not capable of doing something, don't just judge a book by its cover, understand him/her, and give them another chance...

Neel Patel said

at 10:58 pm on Jan 31, 2010

Sorry for the late comment on this disscussion Professor Hodges, I was out for the weekend...

Neel Patel said

at 11:13 pm on Jan 31, 2010

English IQ test was the biggest turn she had in life. It completely changed her ship's heading. Lopes life would not have been as hard if the IQ test was in spanish. She would have started off just like the other kids who started off normally. Not only starting off normally but she would have went to high school and then college which could have lead her to regular student life. After marriage, she would not have had to regrate the fact that she was uneducated. You can see that she still didn't give up on her life. Even after having an IQ test in English, she didn't let her head go down. All the hard work paid off at the end but if Lupe was to take that same IQ test in Spanish her, life would've been simple...Where as in english IQ test gave her more obstacles to overcome which she did in the future, and lead to the extraordinary life and some best momments of her life.

David Hodges said

at 3:05 am on Feb 1, 2010

That was very thorough, Neel. Good work, both of you! Neel and Salena, you may proceed to the Overflow Page if you wish to continue the conversation.

rajbir13 said

at 12:53 pm on Feb 1, 2010

Hello Prof. Hodges, if her children would have done well in english she would not have challenged her own test.When her children were called as slow learners, that was the reason for her to think about her test.if her children were good at school she would have continued her life as it was before and her story would have ended differently.

Tan Hoang said

at 3:50 pm on Feb 1, 2010

For me, in "lupe" situation, her life would changed if there was a Spanish IQ test. If that was the Spanish IQ test, she may has to stranfer to a Spanish elementary school instead of studied in the school which she dropout out. Then she does not have to study Englsih. Therefore, Lupe may married to a different person, but could not having any kids. As a result, she did not have to worry about children.
Just kidding!!!!!!!
In my oppinion, "Lupe" life has changed when her parrent decided moved to the United States. she has to learned English and speak it instead of Spanish. She went to school and learned it, but there were nothing changed at all, so they gave her an IQ test in English which lead her to a restarted student. was that didfferent if the Iq test is in Spanish? this is the question Mr Hodges drives us Nuts. Therefore, if the Iq test was in Spanish, of couse Lupe will get a perfect scored than any students in school. But, how could she learn if she is the only person that could speak and understand spanish in school. she could not communicated with any one who are English speaker. There are a big different if she came back to Spain and show them with that perfect IQ test in Spanish. Then, they could put her up in 4 th or 5 th grade instead. in adddition, she gave birth to her kids in Spain where they have to learned and spoken Spanish. in conclusion, Now, we do not have to discuss about her life and the Iq test.

David Hodges said

at 5:44 pm on Feb 1, 2010

Good work, Rajbir and Tan! You may proceed to the Overflow page if you wish.

Rajbir, you handled those conditional verbs nicely. They're very tricky.

Tan, you will have to work hard to improve your grammar over the next few weeks. Practice writing as much as you can and pay special attention to the grammar sections of our textbook. Obviously, you're a creative thinker—one who needs to communicate his wild ideas very clearly to be understood.

Trupti patel said

at 4:36 pm on Feb 2, 2010

Hello proffser David Hodges sorry for late reply

Trupti patel said

at 4:41 pm on Feb 2, 2010

I read Lope's story its incrediable and when i read that story and i think most of Esl students go through this situstion. and its really suprise she was taking care of her kids, husbands, and grand parnts the way she handle all this with study i cant belive. she is big example for every students of Esl.

nidhi said

at 7:18 pm on Feb 2, 2010

sorry for getting in this late...............

nidhi said

at 7:30 pm on Feb 2, 2010

when i heard the name of story i thought it will be something on some professor and his professional life. But when i read through i got the point of the story. This might true many ESL. students that they have to follow the same situation.. Lopes was really good at her language so she should of get some chance to learn English. but she couldn't. we are happy that we got chance to learn English. so i think from this story we should learn that even if we don't get chance to prove our self we should just not give up with that. we should try until we don't get that. and if we want something really bad in life. then we have to work until we don't that in life. i personally thing that we can not get anything easily in life for everything we have do something. Lupe's did try until she didn't get chance to learn English.

i learned from this story is that try until you don't get what you want in your life. it's not easy to do but it's not even impossible.

nidhi said

at 7:39 pm on Feb 2, 2010

another thing that i don't like this story is that they always judge Lopes from her IQ test. they were giving her IQ test in English. she never learned English, when you do this it's obvious that she can not do anything. because she never learned anything about that language. it's same thing as if someone aspect first grader to know what 10th grader knows. they should of give her IQ test in her language if she failed that then we can say that she is retarded. she was not retarded she was smart student because she proved her self even after having responsibility life at home she manged everything.

David Hodges said

at 4:10 am on Feb 3, 2010

DISCUSSION CLOSED.
THE DEADLINE HAS PASSED.

Thank you, 5, for an excellent discussion! I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. If you scored a 3, it's because you never speculated how Lupe's life would have changed if she had been tested in Spanish.

I will post a new question WED, FEB 03.

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